【Podcast】哈里發-(第一章)記者(i)

 

百靈果的讀書會第一集

Caliphate的官網

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Rukmini真得是一個熱愛他自己工作的瘋子,他為追求真相不惜跑到戰線上,在看到ISIS佔領過的地方還說他來對地方了。

但是他又不會因為追求真相而拋棄自己的堅持。覺得他真得是一位有理想有抱負的人。

希望他之後可以再出類似的Podcast。

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因為這是我的試筆作,我的中文跟英文都不好。

只是順便練英文而已,如果有發現那裡翻錯了再麻煩跟我說一下,謝謝。

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The Reporter

Andy Mills: Chapter 1. “The Reporter.”

Andy Mills:第一章 記者

[Footsteps and background chatter]

Mills (in passing): Hi, Dana. How you doing? Good.

Mills (in passing): Hi Dana.進度如何?很好

[Knock]

Rukmini Callimachi: Hey.

Mills: You got a moment?

Mills:有空嗎?

Callimachi: Yeah, I’m just like — can you give me five? Will you be back there?

Callimachi:有,我就是…你可以再等我一下嗎?你還會回來嗎?

Mills: I’ll just meet you in that room, with your stuff.

Mills: 我在那房間等你,還有你的資料。

[Music]

Callimachi: Hello, hello. Do I need to bring it closer?

Callimachi:Hello, hello.我需要再靠近一點嗎?

Mills: Hello.

Mills: Hello

Callimachi: Yeah, here we go. One, two, three, four, five. Six, seven, eight, nine, ten.

Callimachi:好,那我們開始了。123456789 10。

Mills: So, Rukmini.

Mills: 所以, Rukmini.

Callimachi: Mhmm?

Callimachi: 嗯?

Mills: Before I started following you around all the time ——

Mills:在我開始跟著你之前

Callimachi: [Laughs] Yes.

Callimachi:

Mills: I knew that you were a reporter.

Mills: 那時我就知道你是記者了。

Callimachi: Mhmm.

Callimachi:

Mills: I know that you talked to terrorists on the internet.

Mills:我知道你曾經在網路上跟恐怖份子聊過

Callimachi: Right.

Callimachi:

Mills: I knew that ISIS was your beat. But I don’t think I had any idea what that reporting actually looks like.

Mills: 我知道ISIS是你的目標,但我完全不曉得實際上是怎樣的報導。

Callimachi: Right. Right.

Callimachi: 對對

Mills: Yeah.

Mills:就是這樣

[Music]

[Sound of fighting in the distance]

Callimachi: Hey, Hawk? When you hear that, it’s outgoing? Outgoing.

Callimachi: Hey, Hawk?你聽到的那個傳出去了嗎?傳了

Mills: I didn’t know you are going right up to the front lines of the war against ISIS.

Mills: 我真得不曉得你衝去跟ISIS開戰的前線

Callimachi: There’s a building that appears to have been airstriked.

Callimachi: 有一棟被空襲過的建築。

Mills: And as the coalition soldiers are pushing ISIS back ——

Mills:而且當聯合軍隊正逼退ISIS–

Callimachi: You guys, have these buildings been cleared?

Callimachi:夥伴,但那些建築不是都被清理過了嗎?

Mills: You are right there, directly behind them.

Mills:你就在那裡,直接在他們的後面。

Mills: What are you doing right now?

Mills:你在那裡做什麼?

Callimachi: I’m trying to get out some trash bags. We’re about to go into the building.

Callimachi:我正要拿出垃圾袋,我們準備要進去那棟建築。

Mills: And you pull out garbage bags ——

Mills: 然後你拿出垃圾袋—

[Sound of plastic rustling]

Callimachi: Hang on. Stick it here.

Callimachi:撐著,待在這。

Mills: Like, trash bags that you’ve brought from home ——

Mills:那個垃圾袋就像是你家裡用的那種垃圾袋–

Callimachi: Right.

Callimachi: 對

Mills: And you just start picking stuff up.

Mills:然後你開始往裡面塞東西。

Callimachi: Andy, look at this bunch of computers. Hard drives yanked out.

Callimachi: Andy,看看這堆電腦,硬碟都被拆走了。

Mills: Like, garbage out of buildings.

Mills: 就像垃圾屋

Callimachi: So we basically have an ISIS stamp right here. So we’re in the right place.

Callimachi: 所以我們一開始知道ISIS的營地在這,我們就知道我們來對地方了。

Mills: And when I tell people about that part of your job ——

Mills:而且當我跟人說你的一部份工作

Callimachi: Mhmm.

Callimachi:

Mills: They almost always ask two questions. First ——

Mills: 他們大部份會問二個問題,第一—

Callimachi: There’s a backpack right there, and I really want to search it, but I’m a little scared to put my hand inside it.

Callimachi: 有個後背包在那 ,我真得很想要去翻翻看,但我有點害怕把手放進去翻。

Mills: Isn’t that dangerous?

Mills: 這很危險嗎?

Mills: It could be booby-trapped, huh?

Mills: 他難道不可能是陷阱嗎?

Callimachi: Could be.

Callimachi: 有可能。

Mills: And I’m always like, yes! Very dangerous.

Mills: 所以我總是像這樣,對!非常危險。

[Sound of explosion]

Mills: [Expletives]

Mills: There are explosions.

Mills:有爆炸聲。

Mills: That’s close.

Mills:非常接近。

Mills: And gunfire.

Mills:還有槍聲。

Mills: Hey, smoke. You see this?

Mills:嘿,煙。你有看到嗎?

Mills: And airstrikes. 

Mills:還有空襲。

Callimachi: How many airstrikes have you heard so far?

Callimachi:這麼近的空襲聽過幾次?

Hawk: Three or four?

Hawk: 三次或四次?

Mills: Three or four? Try, like, ten!

Mills:三次或四次?就像聽了十次了。

Mills: And the other question they ask is, how is that worth it?

Mills: 而另一個問題他們會問的是,他的意義是什麼?

Callimachi: Right.

Callimachi:

Mills: Like, what do you say to that?

Mills: 那,你跟他們說是什麼。

Callimachi: So, look, every reporter that covers conflict and war knows that you have to be there. You have to be on the ground if you want to try to understand the story. And, as for me, I’m trying to understand ISIS. And one thing I’ve learned is that if you’re able to get to the buildings that they occupied right after they are liberated — and I mean right after ——

Callimachi: 你看,每個報導都必須包涵已知的衝突與戰爭,所以你必須在那裡。如果你想了解這個事由你必須在那裡。而且就像我,我正試圖的想理解ISIS。還有我學到的另一件事 如果你能立刻進到他們剛剛還在佔領的建築物時-重點是立刻。

Mills: Rukmini, can you describe what you’re doing?

Mills:Rukmini,你可以說明一下你在做什麼嗎?

Callimachi: Well, we’re in a room off the side of church that ISIS had used as a base. I’m looking at a notebook here.

Callimachi: 嗯,我們在曾經被ISIS當作基地的教堂旁的房間,我正在看一本筆記本。

Callimachi: You often can find the documents that they left behind.

Callimachi: 你總是可以在他們離開後找到一些文件。

Callimachi: Look at this one. It’s a little diary.

Callimachi: 看看這個,這像是本日記。

[Sound of pages flipping]

Hawk: It’s like, day by day.

Hawk: 這像是一天接著一天寫的。

Callimachi: These are not documents that are meant for publication.

Callimachi:這些文件是不能公開的文件。

Callimachi: So, look, this is where they slept. This is a prayer mat, and then over there, these are the rockets that they, that they manufactured.

Callimachi:所以看,這是他們睡覺的地方,他們放祈禱墊在這裡。還有一些火箭筒…是…他們做的。

Mills: Oh, my God.

Mills:噢,我的天呀 

Callimachi: Yeah.

Callimachi: 

Callimachi: Imagine if you walked into my home right now, right? If you walked in right now, you would probably find my Bank of America statement. If you found that, you would find all of my daily transactions — you would know what diet I have, you would know that I have a penchant for buying a certain kind of rice milk. You would know the stores that I go to shop at. So you might conclude from that that I’m probably middle-class. If you walked over to the bookshelf, you would find books in Romanian, in English and in French, and you could deduce from that that I most likely speak three languages, or that members of my family are bilingual or trilingual. If you went upstairs and you went into my bedroom and you found my diary, you would find my most private thoughts.

Callimachi: 想像一下如果你現在進到我家,對,如果你現在走進去,你有可能找到我美國銀行的文件。如果你找到它,你可以找到我所有日常交易記錄你可以知道我吃什麼,你可以知道我喜歡買那家的米奶,你可以知道我喜歡去那家店。所以你可以結論出我可能是個中產階級的人。如果你走到書櫃,你可能找到羅馬尼亞的書、英文書和法文書。你可以猜我至少會說三種語言或是我的家庭是雙語或三種語言的家庭。如果你上樓並進到我的房間,那你可以找到我的日記,那你就可以知道我的想法。

Mills: And you’re saying you do that to ISIS?

Mills: 所以你就是這樣對ISIS做?

Callimachi: And so I do that. So I am doing that to ISIS and Al Qaeda, right? I am looking for ISIS’s diary. I am looking for their internal correspondence. Their receipts. Their personal tiffs with co-workers, some of which end up getting sent to the equivalent of ISIS H.R. The things they’re struggling with, that they’re writing letters back and forth about.

Callimachi:對,我就是這樣做。而且不止ISIS還有蓋達組織。我正在找ISIS人員的日記,我在找他們內部信件,他們的收據、他們內部的往來文件、一些最終會送到相當等於ISIS人事的文件。那些他們為了一些難辦的事而寫的往來信件。

Mills: Right, and so the documents are generally what you are using to answer this question, who are we really fighting?

Mills: 對,所以那些文件就可以來回答這個問題。我們在與誰戰鬥?

Callimachi: Yeah.

Callimachi: 對

[Music]

Callimachi: You drove to Syria with your friend from Bremen, right?

Callimachi:你跟你的朋友從不來梅開車到敘利亞,對嗎?

Harry Sarfo: Yeah. I thought to myself, I’ll go down there and live under Shariah.

Harry Sarfo: 對,我心想我要在伊斯蘭教法下的地方生活。

Callimachi: Of course, I’m a journalist, so I also want to talk to them.

Sarfo: They said, we need people who are willing to give their life. Especially in suicide mission.

Callimachi: 我是名記者,我當然也很想跟他們談談。

Callimachi: That’s incredibly difficult, but I’ve been able to speak to around two dozen of them, both in prisons in Europe ——

Callimachi: 這真得是非常困難的,但我已經跟二打以上的人訪談過了,不過都在歐洲的監獄。

Callimachi: What did he do before ISIS came here?

Callimachi: 他在ISIS來之前是在做什麼的?

Hawk: [Arabic]

Callimachi: And in jails in both Syria and Iraq.

Callimachi:還有在伊拉克和敘利亞的監獄裡。

Unidentified Speaker: [Arabic]

Hawk: He worked four months with them as a mechanic.

Hawk:他在他們那做了四個月的技師。

Callimachi: Those interviews have been crucial for me in understanding the general framework of how ISIS works and the motivations that push people to join them. But many of those interviews have also left me frustrated.

Callimachi:那些採訪很重要,讓我了解ISIS的基本架構還有是怎麼吸引他們加入ISIS,但其中很多採訪讓我覺得很沮喪。

Sarfo: They tied him and put him — bent him over his chair.

Sarfo: 他們把他綁在椅子上。

Callimachi: Because ——

Callimachi:因為–

Sarfo: And he chopped off his head.

Sarfo: 他砍下了他的頭。

Callimachi: The overwhelming pattern is that they’ll have witnessed an execution. They’ll have witnessed a beheading. They’ll have been present when a stoning took place.

Callimachi: 在他們難以抵抗的時候,他們會見證極刑。他們會見證砍頭。他們也會目睹石刑。

Callimachi: When you saw those things, did you feel sick to your stomach? What was your reaction?

Callimachi:當你看到這些事 你會覺得反胃嗎?你的反應是什麼。

Sarfo: Yeah. I was shaky, because I was shocked.

Sarfo: 對,我在發抖,因為我太震驚了。

Callimachi: But they never took part in it themselves.

Callimachi:但他們並沒有參加過ISIS

[Music]

Callimachi: It seems to me that many times along the way, you said no.

Callimachi:在我看來一路上你拒絕了他們很多次。

Sarfo: Yeah.

Sarfo: 

Callimachi: They weren’t getting suspicious of you at this point?

Callimachi: 他們在這點沒有對你起疑嗎?

Sarfo: Yeah, they were. They were. They were all looking at me and they were asking, “Why are you here, then?”

Sarfo:有,他們看著我 並問我那你為什麼在這?

Callimachi: Over and over, this is the story they tell.

Callimachi:一次又一次,這只是他們說的故事。

Unidentified Speaker: [Arabic]

Hawk: When they did so, he said, “I don’t want to work with you anymore,” so he, he quit.

Hawk:當他們這麼做之後,他說我不想再跟你們共事,所以他辭職了。

Callimachi: They were a cook, they were a driver, they were a translator.

Callimachi: 他們可以是廚師、可以是司機、也可以是翻譯。

Callimachi: So, Bashir, do you want to tell me what really happened? Or do you not want to be interviewed at all?

Callimachi:所以Bashir你是想告訴我真實發生過的事或是你不想再被採訪?

Callimachi: They present themselves as having been witnesses to horror, but never having carried out the horror themselves.

Callimachi:他們都自稱是恐怖組識的見證者,但都未曾親自進行恐怖活動 。

Callimachi: I’ve lost interest because he’s contradicted himself so many times that I just can’t tell that anything he’s saying is true.

Callimachi:我已經沒興趣了,因為他自相矛盾,我不能相信他說的是真的。

Callimachi: That’s usually how it goes. Usually.

Callimachi: 這種事常常在發生,常常。